“Outside statistics, I enjoy swimming, playing tennis, playing piano, and reading; and I am a three-time winner of Jerzy Neyman Foosball Tournament hosted by the Statistics department (SGSA).”
Seunghoon Paik
This interview has been edited and abridged for clarity.
Interview Transcript#
Drew: Thanks for coming and letting me interview you today. I’m actually really excited to interview a two time champion of foosball.
Seunghoon: Unfortunately, it is outdated. I’m now a three time champion.
Drew: Oh my god! Okay, so which semesters did you win?
Seunghoon: So actually, I don’t remember the semester, but I remember the partners. So the first one was Facu—
Drew: Facu? Wow. Wait, that’s broken, right?
Seunghoon: It was not, it was not. I’m telling you, it was my first time, so I was in the “bad” bracket.
Drew: [laughs] Oh, so you went from down here to all the way up there, sure.
Seunghoon: And my second one was with Karissa. And the third one—
Drew: Okay, wait. That’s broken too.
Seunghoon: And the third one was with Tianyu.
Drew: Cool, wow, well that’s amazing. Do you feel like, next tournament, you could pair up with anybody and just win?
Seunghoon: So… I decided not to play anymore—
Drew: What!!
Seunghoon: I haven’t played for awhile. The Spring tournament was actually the only day I played in year 2024. So I would say I am kind of, like, retired.
Drew: I…
Seunghoon: I still like it.
Drew: But I mean, that’s sad. There are so many bad people, and the good people are in short supply, right? I’m speaking here as a bad person myself.
Seunghoon: Don’t say bad person, say “bad bracket”.
Drew: Yeah, of course. An artificial division of good and bad into half-half is not…
Seunghoon: Yeah. There were several, I don’t know, suggestions, like making three brackets where the best bracket and worst bracket pair with each other, and like, middle bracket pair by themselves. But I personally think the former is much stronger than the latter.
Drew: I see.
Seunghoon: So, like, unless we have rating system, I think this will never be fixed.
Drew: Yeah. I recently learned that the ELO system—
Seunghoon: The chess system?
Drew: Yes, that’s right. I recently learned that it’s just online gradient descent on logistic regression. Did you know that?
Seunghoon: Oh, I didn’t know that.
Drew: It’s logistic regression on the probability of who wins, or something like that. It depends on the difference between the ELO scores.
Seunghoon: Oh, I see, with a certain step size, I guess.
Drew: Yeah, I think every game is, like, a step or something.
Drew: So I understand that you’re retired now, and we’re kind of in the twilight of your career, but why did you start playing foosball in the first place?
Seunghoon: I think, at a first level… I hadn’t known this “foosball” exists in the world, before I came to Evans.
Drew: Oh, wow.
Seunghoon: Then I come to Evans, and then it was in our lounge. And at the time, we don’t have anything like now we have, like ping pong? And the Connect Four. Before now, this was the only thing. I think at that time, there were more people playing, and, you know, when we showed up in the lounge, it’s quite often to see someone else is playing. So it was interesting to watch and play. That’s, I think, how I started.
Drew: Okay, it’s interesting to watch. So what do you think is interesting to watch about it?
Seunghoon: So I like football, which is called soccer in this country. So foosball was still interesting, as kind of, you know, table version of football.
Drew: It’s not very similar, though, right? I mean, you can barely see the ball.
Seunghoon: Yes, the rules are all different, but—well, there is called “futsal”? Futsal is kind of like mini football, but there is no throwing. If the ball is out, you kick the ball and keep going. So maybe it’s a little bit similar to foosball, because there is no sideline out. But you’re right, the rules are different, but still, the basics, or how should I say— the moral is the same. You pass. You go line by line and get the goal.
Drew: Maybe, let me tell you why I like watching foosball games? I think I like it for two reasons. One reason is because of the fact that it’s somehow, like, all like, elastic collisions. You know, it’s like a faster version of billiards. I mean, there’s spin, of course, and stuff like that—
Seunghoon: It’s like interactive billiards.
Drew: Yeah, interactive billiards. But the other reason is, just sometimes there’s chaos. There’s an element of randomness, almost. So do you have reasons like that for why you enjoy watching foosball?
Seunghoon: So actually—how should I say—that can be fun. But I think once you get better, once you’re more into it, probably that chaotic part is less fun, because it’s out of control. Like imagine you’re playing soccer, and everyone is kicking the ball as far as they can randomly and it bounced off the wall and get into the goal. I don’t think that’s what proper fans like about foosball.
Drew: [laughs] Okay, sorry.
Seunghoon: They like, kind of, the artistic part.
Drew: Okay, so do you think that you had a great Foosball teacher?
Seunghoon: Oh yeah, thanks for thanks for asking that. I think, like… my first year was probably the golden era. Maybe there was even a golden era in the past. But I think for my first year—
Drew: I remember your hair at that time. Can we post a picture of your haircut?
Seunghoon: No, please don’t do it. Please, I’m asking you as a favor.
Seunghoon: Anyway, at that time, there was Facu, Benji, Yassine and Jake.
Drew: Yes, that’s right. The four foosball gods.
Seunghoon: But I haven’t really played with Jake that much, he was already quite senior when I started. But with other the three people, I played quite a lot, and I think I cannot name like one single teacher, but I think all three of them are my teachers, especially Facu and Yassine.
Drew: How did they teach you exactly?
Seunghoon: By beating me.
Drew: By beating you.
Seunghoon: Well, if you play with them, and if they beat you badly, then—
Drew: But not everybody can, like, lose and somehow, like, get better. I’ve lost many, many games and somehow I never got better.
Seunghoon: I think it depends. For me, A. This was interesting. B, I want to be better—and they are better than me. And you know, sometimes when you lose, even though you had a bad consequence, the process can be beautiful. Their foosball was not chaotic. They’re playing games. They’re playing very artistic. So I’m willing to acknowledge that, oh, they are better. Definitely is not by chance.
Drew: I remember Facu had something he would say, like, you have to caress the ball. You have to like, gently…
Seunghoon: That’s true! And Facu used to say this a lot—it’s kind of half joke, half not joke. It’s all about physics.
Drew: [laughs]
Seunghoon: You’re not living in quantum world. Like this is not in the quantum level, everything is in \(F = ma\) regime. How you hit the ball will decide how the ball reacts. And I think that captures how he understood this sport. There is luck, but still.
Drew: Okay, and how do you understand this sport? “It’s all physics” is something he used to say. Do you have a philosophy that you could distill? Let’s say, you know, one of the first years says, Seunghoon, I heard you used to be amazing at foosball. What’s the shortest version of what you would tell them to focus on?
Seunghoon: Focus on, to get better at it, or to like it more?
Drew: Well, either.
Seunghoon: So to get better, you should play alone.
Drew: Right. Maybe the afternoon, or like…you had to avoid the times that people are here, I guess.
Seunghoon: Sometimes, when I’d have dinner here… waiting for the microwave… I’d have some time. Something like that. Or if you have your buddy who wants to practice with you… then it’s fine.
Drew: When was your biggest growth? Was it your first year?
Seunghoon: No, I don’t think so. I think it was the time— I can’t remember the semester, but it was the one before Yassine left.
Drew: I see.
Seunghoon: We played quite a lot. He’s such a fun guy! He does trash talk a lot. But he was kind enough to teach me, while beating. After a series of beating me three times, he’ll tell me one wisdom—
Drew: [laughs]
Seunghoon: —one that he exploited against me.
Drew: He’ll reveal the secret. I see. That’s amazing.
Drew: Do you feel like foosball was ever connected to PhD? Maybe you’re like, I’m frustrated, I’m tired, but foosball somehow makes it all better. Or are they more disconnected?
Seunghoon: Maybe for your PhD Career, not playing foosball is better.
Drew: [laughs]
Seunghoon: Yeah, for example, like last year, I played with Addison a lot, and whenever we play, we’d tell each other, “we should stop playing this game”. But it’s fun, it’s quick—foosball, and other sports, are different from PhD. The PhD is a long journey. Your feedback or response is very slow. It is not linear. But foosball, and I think other sports, are more instant, and more linear—
Drew: Not for me. For other people who actually get better, maybe—
Seunghoon: But it’s more linear than PhD!
Drew: Yeah, that’s right.
Seunghoon: So that’s refreshing between doing research. But also, you can get a bit too into it.
Drew: Okay, and then maybe one last question for the people hoping to get into the Berkeley Stats program— possibly with the goal of playing foosball? What does Foosball mean to you now, now that you’ve retired and all that? Was it just a phase of your life? Or do you connect with it emotionally?
Seunghoon: Yeah. I think I am emotionally connected with it. It was really kind of a core memory for my PhD life. All the time that I played with the others was all fun. And now wherever I go, now that I realize this sport exists, I see it in other places, in bars—-whenever I see a table, I say, oh, is this better than the Evans table? Is this the same brand? And maybe I see it’s Tornado, it is the same brand! So my memory is definitely attached to foosball.
Drew: I see, okay. And then lastly, some parting thoughts about what to watch for when observing good players? Or general advice?
Seunghoon: So right, if you are watching good games, with good players, then A: you should of course look at the ball, but also look at what their hands are doing far from the ball. This is usually defense. Mostly, what I’ve learned is you should put your left hand always on the goalie unless you’re like, really, really attacking. Many people forget to do that. And B, general advice: if you’re a beginner, just try to hit as hard as you can. That will help especially if you play duo, like 2v2.
Drew: Okay! Thank you for your time.
Seunghoon: Thanks.